The Wajahat Ali Interview
Americans must fight a war on two fronts: against MAGA fascism and Democratic Party complacency. Wajahat Ali of the Left Hook on Substack and author of Go Back to Where You Came From: And Other Helpful Recommendations on How to Become American joins Gaslit Nation to discuss how to actually build back better this time.
Donald Trump is America’s karma of white supremacy, greed, and misogyny. But while the MAGA virus burns through our institutions, another danger is the "Big Club" in Washington, D.C. where Republicans and Democrats share the same donors, the same golf clubs, and the same refusal to tax the rich.
The DNC thinks they can waltz into power by not being Trump, but voters want a fighter and they want accountability. We are watching a righteous rage build across the globe, from the resistance in Ukraine and Hungary to vigilante violence here at home. When an Amazon worker drops dead and colleagues are told to work around the body, the status quo makes revolution by any means inevitable.
Ukrainians are fighting a war on two fronts: homegrown corruption and Kremlin fascism. We must see ourselves in the same fight. If the Democrats choose the James Carville "possum strategy" and refuse to face reality, they are simply clearing the deck for a more competent autocrat in 2032.
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Show Notes:
Amazon Accused of Hiding Worker’s Death for a Week, Making Employees Keep Working as Corpse Lay on Floor https://futurism.com/future-society/amazon-accused-hiding-death-week
Worker who allegedly set fire to California warehouse compares self to Luigi Mangione https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/apr/10/california-warehouse-arson-luigi-mangione
Newsom Vows to Stop Proposed Billionaire Tax in California https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/13/us/newsom-billionaire-tax-california.html
Christiane Amanpour and Jill Lepore on CNN: Civil War Confederate President Wasn’t Tried, Why It Matters In Trump Case https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXVOIab3ek8
The Black Death by Thomas Asbridge review – a medieval horror story https://www.theguardian.com/books/2026/apr/08/the-black-death-a-global-history-thomas-asbridge-review-pandemic-history-covid
Why Does “DoorDash Grandma” Keep Showing Up with MAGA Members? https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2026/04/14/has-doordash-grandma-appeared-with-other-gop-leaders-what-to-know/89602972007/
Aaron Rupar: “A woman named Lonna Drewes at a news conference just now accused Eric Swalwell of drugging her drink and sexually assaulting her. Here's part of her statement.” https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3mjhtlsrn5i2z
David Dayen: “Several important nuggets in here: • Swalwell was rebuilding Newsom's inner circle; he was the establishment hope • One lobbyist: "Were we willing to delude ourselves or not ask questions that should have been asked? 1000%" • His campaign started sending cease-and-desists last year” https://bsky.app/profile/ddayen.bsky.social/post/3mjfu4px42c25
Lesley Abravanel: “In a major shift, Cook Political Report has now moved 4 Senate seats toward the Democrats (NC,GA, OH, NE). That's on top of 5 House races that Cook Political moved leftward just last week, all partly due to Trump's unpopular war in Iran that sent gas prices skyrocketing.” https://bsky.app/profile/lesleyabravanel.bsky.social/post/3mjflo3zkdc2t
Andrea Chalupa (00:09):
Welcome to Gaslit Nation, a show about corruption in America and rising autocracy worldwide. I am your host, Andrea Chalupa, a journalist and filmmaker and the writer and producer of the journalistic thriller, Mr. Jones, about Stalin's genocide famine in Ukraine -- the film the Kremlin doesn't want you to see, so be sure to watch it.
(00:28):
I am joined this week by the great Wajahat Ali, host of The Left Hook on Substack and author of Go Back to Where You Came From and other helpful recommendations on how to become American. Waj, thank you so much for joining me.
(00:45):
I want to point out that the MAGA brand is toxic. JD Vance goes to Hungary, fucks the couch, and now Orban is out. And the poll numbers are showing that Democrats might not only win the House in these midterms, but we might even win some seats in the Senate, which was unheard of just a few months ago.
(01:12):
The craziness in Jared Kushner's Iran and war by choice and closing the Strata Hermuz and all of that gas prices and now the draft is getting some updates, right? So that's not going to be Barron going out there to Iran. And so obviously Trump with his weird stunt of DoorDash Grandma coming in, DoorDash Grandma is a policy failure to see that poor woman. She should be enjoying her grandchildren and not DoorDashing. All of it is just a massive car pile up of MAGA self-destruction. But my big concern in all this is if we win, which I think we will in the midterms and in 2028 got us willing, how will the Democrats fuck it up? You know what I mean? So I want to just start there and just get a sense of what are you thinking, what are you seeing in all this?
Wajahat Ali (02:09):
So first of all, DoorDash Grandma is a paid actor, a GOP actor who's already helped Donald Trump in the past, and they paid her and she drove across state lines and did that stunt. So I was with you first and foremost. I was like, this is not really a celebration. That fact that a grandmother has to do DoorDash to pay for her husband's cancer, but it's even worse. They actually couldn't even find a real grandmother that is a GOP hack who's actually been used in the past before. So that's number one. Number two, I completely agree with you that Donald Trump is a symptom of a larger problem. I've always said the three major sins in America are sins that we refuse to confront. Our white supremacy, greed and misogyny. And Donald Trump is the inevitable end result of us unwilling to confront this truth about ourselves.
(02:59):
We always want to pass, go and collect money and give it to the rich people and then put poor people in jail. That's America. Reconciliation without truth. So that's Donald Trump. And so I think Donald Trump, people say this is in America. I say he's a part of America. There's always a statue of liberty welcoming immigrants, people like my parents here to give them refuge. And there's always a Donald Trump trying to put his hand up Statue of Liberty's skirt and telling everyone to go away, right? That's America. So I feel like what we have to do now, it's a pivotal moment. And I feel like there's a righteous rage building. Sam Altman's house, or at least the front of his house got firebombed. You saw the paper factory burned down. The worker took a video of himself burning down the paper factory and said, all you had to do was pay us.
(03:46):
Luigi Mangione, the alleged murder, is a hero. You're seeing a righteous rage build. And I think the establishment and the institution, including the Democratic leadership is missing the moment. They think restoration is going to be the answer. I don't think so. I think this is an era of transformation. And what I worry about is this is to quote George Carlin, it's a big club and we ain't in it. And I'm here in DC. I can tell you, this big club includes Republicans and Democrats. It includes the same donors. They have the same donors. They go to the same churches and synagogues. They go to the same golf clubs. They have sex with the same people. They cheat on each other. It's kind of like, I'll scratch your back, you scratch my back. I'll take money from APAC. Hey, I'll take money from the military industrial complex.
(04:35):
I'll be okay with war. Who wants to tax the rich? Come on now. As Gavin Newsom said, they're part of the Big Tent. So my fear is that the Democrats have taken James Carville's possum strategy and they realize Trump is so corrosive that he's imploding that they can waltz their way, like you said, to majority in the House, majority in the Senate, without promising anything. Because I don't know, do you see a policy proposal? I don't see it. I don't see Project 2028. And then they're like, "We'll just do business as usual." The AI bubble's going to burst. And then just like in 2006, 2007, all these people who are getting money from AI and crypto are going to say it's too big to fail. They haven't really, really broken from APAC and the military industrial complex. They're still wedded to the rich. So I think, Andrea, there's two years.
(05:20):
I think a lot could happen in two years. I'll give you an example real quick. Eric Swalwell last milk has lasted ... Milk from Friday is still more fresh than Eric Swalwell. So I just want people to, at home who are listening, nothing is inevitable. Orban is not inevitable. A Gavin Newsom corporate presidency is not inevitable. I'm getting vibes of 2007 and 2025 where Clinton was inevitable and then my Muslim brother, Barack Obama came out of nowhere. And then last year I interviewed Zohran Mamdani. He was a distant number two and now he's the most popular elected official and the mayor of New York. That's the vibe, Andrea, that I'm seeing. I'm seeing like this is a massive populist vibe. People want accountability. They want fighters and they want change. And if you don't give it to them, my fear is, okay, Democrats win. You give them same old, same old. 2032, you get your first America First Nazi president.
Andrea Chalupa (06:15):
So I have been in my book launch for Mrs. Orwell in a fever dream, a book launch fever dream. And so I did not know that that DoorDash grandma was a GOP actor. And I just want to start there because guess who else does that? The Russians.
Wajahat Ali (06:33):
Yep.
Andrea Chalupa (06:34):
In the 10 plus years of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, they will recycle the same actors to put them in random spots, like showing like a one Russian mother running away with her baby from the Ukrainian army. It's an actor. And of course the Republican Party MAGA is doing that too, of course.
Wajahat Ali (06:53):
I'm sending you the link as you're talking about this. Hold on.
Andrea Chalupa (06:56):
Yes. Oh my God. So the other thing is DC, George Carlin, one big club. We are not in it. That is true as well as for the partners, the spouses of all the power brokers in the swamp of Washington DC. Trump is right about it being a swamp, but he is the swamp. And there, also I want to point out, because my sister was in DC for many years, and word on the street is a lot of those partners, a lot of those wives are on the payroll of foreign governments like Saudi Arabia to further their interests. There was a social club of elite political women and media wives that Ivanka Trump was welcomed into during the first Trump term. And that is a underground, under the radar form of lobbying. Everybody is paid off in DC. And that's why we have the swamp in the first place. That's what the swamp is.
Wajahat Ali (07:54):
Absolutely. And the actress's name in Sharon Simmons. And literally as we're talking, it's all trending. Has DoorDash Grandma appeared with other GOP leaders? Why does DoorDash Grandma keep showing up with MAGA members? And then DoorDash Grandma isn't a paid actress says the company. Is DoorDash grandma a paid actor? And then you're seeing all these photos of her appearing with GOP folks in the past.
(08:15):
Come on, man. Like you said, this is what happens in Russia. This is what happens in authoritarian regimes. And even the fact that she would appear all of a sudden holding McDonald's in the White House and Donald Trump comes out and says, "Well, hello there." I mean, what are we doing? And the fact that they're celebrating this, like you said, and not lamenting the fact that there's a grant ... Even their story, right? Suppose it's true. I'm very doubtful that a grandmother is working DoorDash to pay for her husband's cancer.
(08:46):
We're the wealthiest country on earth. Why the F is a grandmother who should be enjoying retirement doing DoorDash, but I digress. But to your point, I always joke, Andrea, that you can close your eyes. I could close my eyes and throw a pebble in DC and I'll hit someone being paid by UAE, Quatar, Saudi Arabia, or Israel. Notice I didn't say Democrat or Republican. Anybody, libertarian, Democrat, Republican, you close your eyes, you throw a pebble, you will hit someone who is on the payroll of these countries, of these authoritarian countries, and then you see them shaping policy. Then you see them in the White House, like, I don't know, Pam Bondi, who was getting paid. Remember that? By Quatar? Then you see them in think tanks without disclosing, "Hey, I'm actually paid by these agents." It is so incestuous.
(09:34):
It is so gross, which goes back. It's a big club. And I used to be in CNN for a year as a official, I don't know, contributor. So I remember I always tell people in the green room, you go to the green room, you wait for your turn, you do makeup, then you sit in the green room, and then you see it's like a turnstile for all these individuals. You got these Republicans come on, you got elected officials come on, you got the anchors come on. And let me tell you, all these people were chummy with each other, like super duper chummy. And I remember I got invited my agency, UTA, which I think has forgotten that they represent me. They invited me to the White House correspondence pre-party, the dinner pre-party, which was like ... So I went once. And I remember it was right before my ... It was like right before COVID.
(10:24):
I remember that year. It was right before COVID. And I go and the first person that I see outside of the party having the greatest time, Sean Spicer. Now you all might be asking yourself who's Sean Spicer. Sean Spicer was Donald Trump's first White House press secretary whose job was to mock the press, lie to the press. He's the guy who came out in his first press conference. Remember he said that was the biggest gathering ever. That was the biggest inauguration. Literally Gaslight Nation, he gaslit us. And this is guy who spent his career, short lived career as White House press secretary literally mocking these people. So what did they do? They invited him to their party where he had the greatest time and was bear hugging someone with a big laugh. Make that make sense, Andrea. For the average Jose who sees that, they're like, "Oh, you're actually friends with the guy who mocked you, ridiculed you, called you enemy of the people and is having the best time at your party."
Andrea Chalupa (11:22):
It's all a big show. It absolutely is. And that's why my sister relocated to Sydney, Australia. I mean, she's being harassed by the Kremlin and Fox News, but also no one had her back in DC when the Kremlin and MAGA put a big fat target on her. No one had her back because they're all just looking for their next payday. It was just a disgusting cesspool. And I do want to say, you and I were both from Northern California, so I'm going to bring that Northern California energy and that Star Wars energy and just say Donald Trump is America's karma. Washington DC is Mar-a-Lago. It's the same beast. He put his name on the Kennedy Center. John F. Kennedy, we see him as this great icon of America at its greatest. There's a memoir of a woman who was a teenager working in the White House who got groomed and learned into a love affair with President Kennedy and he abused her.
(12:25):
He was awful with women. And so it's sort of like, yeah, Kennedy and Trump, they should have their names on ... It's a wake up call to us. It's a mirror to us that Donald Trump is America's karma that we finally have to process and do something about.
Wajahat Ali (12:44):
It's one of those things where America is a country that loves to get to reconciliation without truth. And let me give you an example. We have monuments and bridges and schools named after Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee. Two racist traitors and slavers who lost the war. Okay, if you won the war, have a statue. You Mother Effers lost the war and we still have Democratic presidents like Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton saying, "Oh, let's all get along with these two racist slavers who broke away and fought America." What? They're traitors and they lost. Then you look at Richard Nixon. Oh, now even though he should be in jail, let's pardon him, right? Let's look at the financial criminals. Too big to fail. Let's give him a slap on the wrist and let's give them an opportunity to just rape the earth and our resources and our economy again.
(13:39):
And then one of the three biggest sins of Joe Biden, right? Because Joe Biden is guilty of this. I'm sorry, folks, he is. I'll give you three examples of how Joe Biden was part of the big club. He did many good things. The good things I praise, no problem. And it's not the same.
Andrea Chalupa (13:53):
Infrastructure, green energy. Thank you.
Wajahat Ali (13:56):
Yes. Yeah. Ketanji Jackson, and they're not exactly the same. I still voted for him. But these are the three major sins of his presidency that I think will harm him in his legacy. Number one, Merrick Garland. The Merrick Garland of it all, the biggest sin. In the sense that he deliberately chose an institutionalist who slow walked the investigation. Forget cufflinks. Donald Trump never saw the inside of a courtroom. That was very deliberate. He could have and should have replaced him with someone who'd come in with brass knuckles, but he chose not to. The second sin, Gaza. Ideologically blind. Even now the DNC is ideologically blind. Even now the DNC says F you to its own base that is telling you for the past two years, the main reason why we stayed at home is because we're the genocide generation. We saw genocide unfold in real time.
(14:46):
And Hakeem Jeffries is like, "I will still take money from APAC." All right. The third sin is, Joe Biden is like, "I'm going to stay here forever." And you're like, "Dude, you screwed Kamala." And let's be honest, you screwed the Democrats. You kind of hinted that you were going to be a one-term president and then you only left and gave her like, what was it, like three months, Andrea? And she's a black woman, everything's against her. So those are three enduring sins that we see. Even now, they're still not promising accountability. They're still not promising taxing the rich. They still take money from APAC. Chuck Schumer and February folks, this February said, "My number one goal is to make sure Israel gets all the aid that it needs." And then you're telling me, Andrea, that if we vote for these same people, that everything's going to be different.
(15:38):
I don't think so.
(15:40):
And then they're more comfortable, Andrea, like bear hugging Liz Cheney and Netanyahu than they are of like ... I don't know. I don't know Hassan Piker. I don't know him, right? But the fact that for the last three weeks we heard more about Hassan Piker by the DNC and APAC and Third Way than we've heard about, I don't know, this illegal war, just shows you they're using Hassan Piker as a litmus test. We're going to crush any progressive. And meanwhile, you're seeing what happened in Hungary. You're seeing what's happening all around the world. You're seeing, like I said, Sam Altman's house getting bombed. You're seeing Luigi as a hero. People want fighters. So I think this same old, same old that the DNC has promoted for 10 years ain't going to cut it. And folks, anyone who's waiting for the DNC to change, Andrea, it's been 10 years, 10 years.
(16:32):
This is who they are. They won't change. They can't change. They're not made for this moment. They're not built for this fight. Thank you for your service. We appreciate you. It's time for you to either evolve or we have to cull you in the next six months and replace you with fighters. Too much is at stake. That's where I'm at, Andrea. And I really feel strongly that if inshalla we have free and fair elections, and I really mean that because Donald Trump, this is a man who's insited a violent insurrection. This is a man who's trying to promote the SAVE Act. This is a man who unleashed the FBI to do a raid of Fulton County. This is a man who's selling 2028 merch. This is a man when Zelenskyy came last year, he said, "Really? You could suspend elections during a war. Oh, that's great. That would work."
(17:20):
And everyone kind of nervously laughed. Remember that? I think he was serious. I don't think he's leaving legally and peacefully. So inshalla, if we have free and fair elections and Democrats feel like they can waltz in with the same old, same old. Hey, two years is a lifetime, Andrea. I think they're going to get, I think this is going to be a rude awakening. But what's your thoughts? You think I'm crazy?
Andrea Chalupa (17:42):
Joe Biden. Thank you for infrastructure. Thank you for obviously Justice Jackson and they did pass the corporate tax.
Wajahat Ali (17:54):
Yes.
Andrea Chalupa (17:54):
They were trying to do some good things that we did benefit from. Yes. Agree with everything. Everything you said. It was a big factor of why he lost. When we, the whole world watched in shock, Donald Trump incite a violent attempted coup on January 6th with members of Congress as co-conspirators. They tried to violently overthrow our democracy. We watched that all. The whole world was just frozen in shock. I remember taking my toddler to the playground the next day and my toddler was clinging to me and all the other parents were saying the same thing, that their children were clinging to them because they felt our energy of how terrified we all were with what we just witnessed. I remember the news, like where I was, they're in Nancy Pelosi's office now. It's one of those moments that lives in your cellular DNA trauma now. And the Democrats come in with control of all of Congress, control of the White House, and they spend two years just kicking the can, creating some compelling viral videos, of course.
(19:05):
They did do some must watch TV in Congress, right? They showed these massive disturbing montages of the violence. Fine.
(19:13):
They elevated Liz Cheney as a leader of the resistance and they didn't really do much else than that. We have laws that were put in place after the Civil War during the period of reconstruction. There were laws in our constitution put in place on how to deal with traitors to keep them out of power. And they didn't even push that lever. One DC insider was telling me that Biden could have had an appointment, a political appointment who was a bridge between the White House and the DOJ that could have pushed them on doing more to clean house on January 6th. Instead, they went after the saps, the foot soldiers, the low hanging fruit, instead of going after the coup plotters. And now the coup plotters are back in power.
Wajahat Ali (20:00):
Listen, if the hamburger keeps stealing hamburgers and Ronald McDonald just looks at them and gives them a high five, the hamburger burglar's going to go and steal more burgers from every single McDonald's. That's what the lesson that Republicans learned was, "Wow, you're weak. You're pathetic. You guys don't know how to flex power. You didn't stop us. Awesome. That was a dress rehearsal. We'll do it again." And the one credit I'll give Republicans, I don't want to give them credit, but I have to, is when they get in power, Andrea, they flex. They don't give an F. They don't look at the polls. They're like, "We'll do whatever the hell we want. Stop us. Stop us, you cuck. Stop us, you beta male." And the Democrats are like, "Let's go ask the parliamentarian." And meanwhile, we are like, "No, we gave you power -- flex." And they're like, "Nah, but he's my friend.
(20:47):
And let's just do business as usual. Let's go drink some brandy and just slap each other on the back and laugh." That's the Chuck Schumer way of doing it, right? I went and talked to Donald Trump and I think he got the message. No, you have to put on the brass knuckles. So that's why they're not built this way. And also I'll tell you what people might not like to hear. And you saw this with Swalwell. Eric Swalwell, as we know, has not just ended his gubernatorial campaign, he has resigned. It took all of two days. And folks, when someone ends their campaign and resigns, there's a there, there. They only do that if there's a there there. Now everyone's saying internally in DC, "Well, we knew about it. We heard about it. " And then you ask yourself, "I didn't know about it. Did you know about it, Andrea?" If people knew about it, how come they didn't say it?
(21:33):
And this is how you see an Epstein class or a Weinstein or a P Diddy. It's an incestuous club. And now they're saying there were some other people, both Republicans and Democrats who either knew or participated, right? And then you're like, "Oh, okay. It's a big club. You scratch my back. I'll scratch your back. You won't censure me. I won't censure you. I'll hide your sins, you'll hide my sins." And that's kind of what we're seeing also with the Democrats. You have Randy Fine, Andy Ogles and Tommy Tuberville say some of the most heinous, genocidal, anti-Muslim stuff. No censure. People have already forgotten. Who did the Democrats decide to censure? Rashida Tlaib and Al Green. Al Green, they joined the Republicans to censure Al Green because he mocked Donald Trump's lies about Medicare and social security during his last year's state of the bullshit address.
(22:27):
They stripped Ilhan Omar of her committee. But Randy Fine being openly genocidal, that's okay. So this is why, Andrea, I feel like if you look at the polls, yes, Democrats are ... How do you reconcile this? Let me put it this way. Democrats are winning. Democrats are overperforming. Democrats are now in play in even Iowa as of yesterday in Texas. But the Democratic brand is worse than Donald Trump. How does that make sense? People do not trust these institutions anymore. People are not voting for Democrats. They're voting against Trump. So you're getting all these Latino Republicans who haven't become Democrat. They're just like, "We want to get this mother Ffer out. " You get independents who haven't become Democrat. They just want to get this Mother Fer out. So Democrats are misreading this and saying, "Aha. People love the Democratic Party, but then I give you the poll that the Democrats are ranked lower than Donald Trump, who has the lowest favorability rating.
(23:21):
They're in their high 20s. It's disgusting. So my fear is, and this is a real legitimate fear, is they're going to win. There'll be a business as usual. The AI bubble, the crypto bubble's going to burst. All the worst people are going to fail up. I scratch your back, you scratch my back. They're going to go after, like you said, some foot soldiers. They're not going to go after the infrastructure. And then voila, 2032 happens, and we have Tucker Carlson or Nick Fuentes running for president.
Andrea Chalupa (23:47):
100%. Absolutely. That's how it's going to go down. And the latest news is that a person in Oregon, in an Amazon factory in Oregon, dropped dead at work.
Wajahat Ali (23:59):
Oh yeah.
Andrea Chalupa (24:00):
His body was lying on the ground. Other workers tried to help him. And they were told by their higher ups, "Don't do anything. Keep working. Keep working. Don't believe your eyes and ears. Pretend that this human being laying dead on the ground is not there."
(24:16):
That is out of Andor. That is out of Black Mirror. That is happening in Jeff Bezos's Amazon factories. That level of inhumanity, the income inequality is even worse today than it was in the Gilded Age. So people are going to rise up. It is across the political spectrum because they're being forced to. They're being forced to. Orban got voted out after 16 years because he destroyed so many lives and people finally organized and got rid of him. That is going to happen. That is happening as you're saying in the United States and it's coming not just for MAGA, but Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer because they continue to be tone deaf. They continue to be Republican light.
Wajahat Ali (25:06):
And look at Gavin Newsom a couple months ago. Aaron Sorkin Ross asked him publicly, taxing the rich is very popular. Literally, Gavin Newsom said they're part of the big tent. And that was your answer. And that's the person who's the great white knight. That's the person the DNC wants. That's the person who allegedly, according to Axios, Nancy Pelosi has thrown her weight behind. Gavin Newsom. I'm from California, you're from California. I've seen his entire political career. He is not the guy, folks. He is a man who believes in nothing except himself. He's one of these guys who wants to run for the sake of running. And all these people who think it's Pete Buttigieg, anyone who's like the center corporate, center left person from the past, I don't see it, Andrea. If I'm wrong, I'll say I'm wrong. But I'm old enough to remember that Hillary Clinton was inevitable until she wasn't.
(25:54):
Cuomo was inevitable until he wasn't. Orban was inevitable until he wasn't. And Peter Majar comes from the Fedez Party. He's conservative. And in two years, he assembles this, like you said, this coalition of people who are really pissed off because Orban and the oligarchs and Russia just pillaged the country, purged the country of its guardrails, purged the judiciary, purged the government, purged the media.
Andrea Chalupa (26:21):
Attacked gays and immigrants.
Wajahat Ali (26:22):
Attacked Muslims, immigrants, gays, people of color, attacked woke. Steve Bannon 10 years ago said that Victor Orban was Trump before Trump, right? And the people were promised wealth and riches. Well, guess what? They stole all the wealth and richers and they pardoned their friends. Does this sound familiar, folks? And then in two years, Majar called this out, basically ran, like you said, anti-corruption, anti-oligarch, anti-Putin campaign. And people are like, "Yeah, we're down." And then you got the most, the largest amount of Hungarians since the fall of communism, 1989 came out. It was such a resounding victory that they took over the parliament. They got two thirds of the majority and Orban's like, "All right, peace out. Even I can't contest this. "
(27:01):
So you see bellwethers right Andrea? Of course, Hungary isn't the same as the United States, but I remember where I was, I was traveling and then I was on a flight and I'm like, "All right, by the time I land, we're going to get the Brexit vote." So I assumed the Brexit vote would be 52-48 and 52-48 in the opposite direction.
(27:21):
I'm like, literally they can't be this stupid, but I think it's going to be very close. I land, I look at the results, 52-48, the opposite direction. And then the rest of us in America were like, two of my British friends are like, I was in WhatsApp. I'm like, "Bro, it's like you're literally drinking, doing cocaine and pouring gasoline all over your car." And then you're like, "I'm going to drive this car 85 miles per hour in a brick wall." And we're like, "Please don't do that. Shut up. I'm going to do that. " And then they did it.
(27:45):
That was Brexit. And then a few months later, America said, "Hold our diet Coke. We're going to elect Donald Trump." You see patterns and you saw the Brexit pattern on the emergence of the right wing. I think you're seeing a pattern with Orban, the story that you just said, the story of the paper factory that burned down by a worker, Sam Altman's house getting firebombed, Luigi.
(28:06):
Historically, when there's this much income inequality, regardless of where you are in history, there is a rise in violence. And with the Broligarchi, and including the Broligarchi's pets who are, I'm sorry to say folks, yes, in both parties, they're spending an obscene amount of money. APAC, AI and crypto spent 90 plus million dollars to tilt the Illinois Democratic primaries, 90 plus million dollars, right? They're thinking the peasants will be sick, the peasants are ignorant, the peasants are dumb, the peasants will keep working until death. The peasants will never rise up against us. Andrea, I don't know. I'm seeing signs. I'm seeing signs.
Andrea Chalupa (28:47):
The research into the black plague, the episodes of black plague throughout history, Europe and Africa and Middle East, what's really surprising to historians is that people in those periods held onto their humanity. They refused to abandon each other. They did what they could to stay human. And when all hell was breaking loose on earth, humanity survived, civilization survived. That's where we came from.
(29:14):
Right now, we're in another version of the black plague with these oligarchs run amuck and this transnational mafia. People will double down on their humanity. That's what we have to bet on. And another point I want to put on the historical record of this conversation is there was reporting that Eric Swalwell's team, his campaign team, the Democratic establishment insiders that were trying to get him anointed governor of California knew about the sexual harassment. They knew about it and they were sending out cease and desist threats.
(29:55):
They were doubling down.
Wajahat Ali (29:56):
Yep. Well, I mean, are you surprised?
Andrea Chalupa (29:59):
Of course not. But it's a heroic story of survivors holding a lot of their humanity and saying, "We're not going to tolerate this. He's out.
(30:07):
And now he's out.
Wajahat Ali (30:08):
And this is the difference, right? When people say, "Okay, well, isn't there a difference?" Yes, because the difference at least is in two days, all the Democrats, all the Democrat elected officials who endorsed him, removed their endorsement, and he's out. He came out first and then Tony Gonzalez also resigned. Tony Gonzalez is a Republican who also cheated. And there was another woman who claimed that he abused his position of power and his former staffer killed theirself through self-immolation. And he refused to resign.
(30:39):
And so you sit there and you go, "Okay, that's the difference between Democrats and Republicans that they worship a rapist. Literally, Donald Trump has been held liable for rape and accused by two dozen women of sexual assault and party with pedophile Jeffrey Epstein where allegedly, I mean, very likely he raped girls. And Republicans are like, he's my king and daddy. But what we're also saying folks is even within the Democrats, this was allegedly, like as Andrea is saying, and I've said it before, people knew.
(31:09):
And they're like, "You know what? That's okay. Let's make him governor." And what we're seeing is people are like, "Oh, no, no, no. We're going to get rid of the entire Epstein class."
(31:18):
And I think what the Epstein story did, Andrea, it's like a Rosetta Stone, where it confirmed our Spidey sense. We always kind of knew, but we didn't know and he didn't want to be a conspiracy theorist, but you're like, "I think it's a big club. And I think all these people get together and I think all these people are screwing us and literally raping girls and it's bipartisan and it doesn't matter about your ethnicity or religion, but I don't know. I have a feeling, but I don't know." And the Epstein emails and the Epstein class gets revered like, "Aha, it's a big club. Of course. It's international." And then I think the same thing with Swalwell and all these other people are like, "Oh, it ain't just Republicans doing this. It's Democrats." But if you think you could do the same old, same old and just ignore it, oh no, no, no. I think people want scalps. I think this is unfortunately-
Andrea Chalupa (32:07):
A hundred percent.
(32:08):
What we witness. So on the show on Gaslit Nation, we talk a lot about Ukraine as an example because Ukraine is a laboratory of Kremlin aggression and Ukrainian civil society, the independent journalists, the activists, the anti-corruption reformers, they are the reason why Ukraine still exists as a country, as a democracy, and they hold Zelensky accountable. Their grassroots engine is extraordinary. It's historic. And we're seeing resistance here in America on the same level of Ukraine. In the Euromaidan revolution, Ukrainians across society ran towards danger to be on that square in Kyiv and to overthrow the Ukrainian Trump who had a fleet to Russia where he's been ever since waiting for the American Trump. And with Minnesota, we saw Americans running towards danger, right? After Renee Good, Alex Preti rose up. And after Alex Pretty, so many others rose up and they defeated MAGA in Minnesota. So the Americans across society, because it's not just one group, it's not just one party.
(33:13):
We don't identify. We are just humans. There's a massive force of us that are very much following in the spirit of that Ukraine model, whether they realize it or not. And that's what gives me hope. And so what Waj is saying and what I'm saying and what our two shows do, like Left Hook and Gaslit Nation, we're preparing Americans to fight on two fronts. You're not just fighting fascism, right? You're not just fighting MAGA, the MAGA virus, you're also fighting corruption generally.
Wajahat Ali (33:44):
Yes.
Andrea Chalupa (33:44):
Like Ukrainians, we are fighting on two fronts. Ukrainians are fighting their homegrown corruption and they're fighting the fascism of the Kremlin that is mass murdering, genociding their country. They're fighting on two fronts. We here as Americans, as patriots of our country, the best of us in history who have moved progress forward, we just have to accept the reality that we are fighting on two fronts.
Wajahat Ali (34:08):
No, absolutely. Very well said. It's not enough orange man bad. Orange man's symptom of our unrecognized sins. And until we confront and recognize and undo those sins, we will be cursed to relive it. The sins of capitalism, the sins of white supremacy and the sins of misogyny, I would say the three main sins, right? And until we have a reckoning, we need a transformation. We need a new, new deal because what the Democrats who are part of the system, I'm sorry to say, yes, they're not the same as MAGA. Yes, they're not the same as Donald Trump. And by the way, folks, I told everyone to vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016. I told everyone to vote for Biden in 2020. I did told everyone to vote for Harris in 2024. So please spare me the outrage, right? But at the same time, if you think you could do same old, same old politics, you're misreading the moment.
(34:59):
If you think you can be complicit in a genocide, you've missed the moment. If you think you could take money from AI and crypto and help them with their "deregulation," you've missed the moment. If you think billionaires are part of your big club and big tent, you've missed the moment. If you're unwilling to aggressively hold these criminals accountable, you've missed the moment.
(35:16):
And this is where we need a culling because we need to shake up the system because it isn't just Donald Trump. It's the system that nurtured him that needs a transformation. And until we really kind of get to the root of it, we're going to be cursed, if you will, to keep reliving this. But I think we're at a moment as we're seeing in Ukraine, as we're seeing in Palestine, we're seeing in Hungary where people are sick and tired. And the fact that stories are coming out, like you said, I'm so glad you mentioned that story.
(35:43):
I saw it yesterday. It really disturbed me. I mean, you don't even have to imagine it, Andrea. You're working at an Amazon factory and everyone wants everything now. I'm old enough to remember when things used to come in three to five days, I was happy. Then they're like, two days, I was happy. Then it's next day. Now it's same day, right? And these people are working to get you your toothpaste the same day, because God forbid, if it's one hour late, and one of these workers drops dead and the manager says, "Ignore your colleague who's dead on the floor. Work around his lifeless body until we can get him out." That's what happened. How long do you think this will sustain itself, Andrea?
Andrea Chalupa (36:24):
Jeff Bezos to the Hague.
Wajahat Ali (36:27):
All these people to the Hague. F them all.
Andrea Chalupa (36:28):
All of them.
Wajahat Ali (36:29):
I don't even lie, Andrea. I was on Pierce Morgan Show after the Luigi Mangione, the alleged suspect was caught. And I said to him, "I'm not for vigilante violence in the United States of America because this is a country of over 400 million guns and it's a country that increasingly our police look like frigging idea of soldiers and things can escalate real quick and end in a terrible way for American citizens like ICE, I don't know, murdering people. " So I think escalation in a country with 400 million guns and vigilante violence probably isn't good. But at the same time I said, the fact that a majority of Americans are supporting Luigi, what do you think was going to happen, Andrea?
Andrea Chalupa (37:13):
Ukrainians weren't into violence either in Euromaidan, but they had to be there for an act of self-defense. They have to defend themselves against Russia. It's an act of self-defense. We're not advocating violence, but ultimately, as MLK said, riots are the voice of the unheard.
Wajahat Ali (37:31):
And you see this everywhere, like Ukrainians, right? Just use Ukraine. Why do people take weapons? Because they want freedom. You see what's happening in Palestine. I've always been, when it comes to terrorism, I've always been very equal opportunity and consistent across the board. I was on Pierce Morgan after October 7th happened, but then you sit there and think, okay, what do you expect Palestinians to do? Just get killed. What do you expect Ukrainians to do? Just get killed? What do you expect? Literally, what do you expect? Even ICE, if ICE gets unleashed and there's people watching, and literally there's more and more Rene Nicole Goods getting killed, and then Americans stand up and say, You know what? I'm just going to stand the corner of my street with my frigging weapon and just sit here with a patrol. Are they radicals, Andrea, or are they just protecting themselves and making sure they don't get killed? You tell me.
Andrea Chalupa (38:22):
Our discussion continues and you can get access to that by signing up at the truth teller level or higher on Patreon. Discounted annual memberships are available and you can give the gift of membership. Get bonus shows, invites to exclusive events, all our shows at free, and more at patreon.com/gaslit. That's patreon.com/gaslit. Thank you to everyone who supports the show.
(38:45):
To help Ukraine with urgently needed humanitarian aid, join me in donating to Razom for Ukraine at razomforukraine.org. To support refugees in conflict zones, donate to doctors without orders at doctorswithoutborders.org. And to protect critically endangered orangutans already under pressure from the palm oil industry, donate to the Orangutan Project at theorangutanproject.org -- and check your products for palm oil because it's everywhere.
(39:14):
Gaslit Nation is produced by Andrea Chalupa. Our associate producer is Karlyn Daigle. Our founding production manager is a Nicholas Torres. If you like what we do, please leave us a review on iTunes. It helps us reach more listeners.
(39:28):
Original music on Gaslit Nation is produced by David Whitehead, Martin Vissenberg, Nick Farr, Damien Arriaga, and Karlyn Daigle. Our logo design was generously donated by Hamish Smyth of the New York-based firm Order. Thank you so much, Hamish.
(39:44):
Gaslit Nation would like to thank our supporters at the producer level on Patreon and higher. Jans Allstrup Rasmussen, Katie Macurus, Anne Bertino, David East, Dawn Rosener, Deborah Schiff, Diana Gallaher, D.L. Singfield. Icepare is defiant. James D. Leonard, Jared Lombardo, Joe Darcy, Kevin Gannon, Kristen Custer, Larry Gassan, Thea Campbell, Leo Chaloupa, Lily Wachauski, Marcus J. Trent, Mark Mark, Nicole Spear, Randall Brewer, Sherry Escobar, Todd, Dan, Milo and Pubi. Work for better, prep for trouble. Ruth Anne Harnish and Tanya Chalupa. Thank you all so much for your support of the show. We could not make Gaslit Nation without you.
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